Reversing Osteoporosis After Multiple Fractures: Vanni's 2-Year Comeback (Muscle, Mindset, Bone Density)

This transcript is lightly edited for readability.

Edie: What does it take to reverse osteoporosis after fracturing a kneecap, shoulder, hip, and pelvis? In this episode, I sit down with Vanni, a member of The OsteoCollective, who has done exactly that over two years while navigating caregiving, grief, and perfectionism.

Vanni went from a frightening diagnosis and anxiety about medication and movement to gaining 12 pounds of healthy weight and visible muscle, coming out of osteoporosis range in her spine, and building an entirely new identity rooted in strength, focus, and peace. Her story is a powerful reminder that healing is never just physical, and that it's never too late to begin. I hope you enjoy this episode.

I'd love to just start by learning what it was like when you received your osteoporosis diagnosis. What was going on in your life then, and can you share what that experience was like?

Vanni: Well, it was something else. I had heard pretty early on that I was on a trend for osteoporosis, but I did nothing about it. And of course it continued to get worse. I had fallen and fractured a kneecap. I had fallen and broken a shoulder. And I had fallen and broken part of my hip and part of the pelvis. The doctor said that with all of those breaks, that was a great big fat warning sign — and with my DEXA scan, it was an even bigger warning sign.

He said my spine was so bad that if I were to fall, I would likely have a huge break that would just cause me to collapse into myself. That made me quite anxious. But by then he was recommending a drug that I didn't want to go on — the Prolia shots. I looked up the hazards of that and was really concerned about doing it.

And then a friend of mine sent me a video clip of Dr. Doug Lucas's program, which offered an alternative to these types of drugs. I thought, well, I'm going to listen to that. It's worth listening to, because I really would like to explore a different option. So I listened, got excited, and decided I was going to try that option before I ever tried this drug whose side effects I didn't like. And that's what I did.

Edie: Thank you for giving us that context. I can't imagine what that must have felt like to hear those words from your doctor. I know you touched on the anxiety that you felt, but can you speak to where you were emotionally at that time as well?

Vanni: Oh, I was pretty anxious about it. My grandmother had had her vertebrae collapse — she had severe osteoporosis. Her sister had severe osteoporosis and had had her vertebrae collapse. Both of my dad's aunts had osteoporosis. So I knew by then to be frightened, and I was. I was worried about it, but I also was very worried about going on this drug with the potential side effects.

Edie: I'm sure it took a lot of courage and strength to take a course that was different than what your provider was recommending.

Vanni: Yes, I did have to muster up some courage to do that. And you know, sometimes you choose your alternatives based on what you fear. I was fearing that drug, and so I chose a different alternative, and was hopeful that it would help me prevent the kind of issue my doctor was concerned about.

Edie: What was it about Dr. Doug's program that spoke to you, or that caused you to want to pause and consider it, and ultimately enroll?

Vanni: He basically laid out the fact that it is possible to reverse osteoporosis, and he laid out what his reasons were for being concerned about these different osteoporosis drugs. He had a background working as a surgeon on women who had had these fractures, and his thought was: we need to do something to prevent this, not wait until the woman has fractured her bone, or the man has fractured his bones, in order to do something about it. He explained how he got his education in this area, and I felt very confident in his expertise. So I thought, I'm going to do this.

Edie: It's been such a joy to work with you, Vanni. I think we've been coaching together for a little over a year, in a group coaching capacity, and witnessing your transformation — we're going to look at the results that you've created as well. It's just been so inspiring to see how you've stayed the course. You've been patient, you've been curious. For anyone who is new to Dr. Doug's program, or new to making some of the shifts that you have from a lifestyle perspective, could you share what it was like coming into the program?

Vanni: I was hopeful. I came in believing that there was a possibility that this could work. That's where I started.

I had some anxiety about the workouts, because if you get online and you read about it — well, if you have osteoporosis, don't do this exercise, don't do this movement, don't, don't, don't. So I had a little bit of anxiety about getting into a weightlifting, resistance training type of program, because I didn't want to make things worse. I'd already fractured bones.

I kept hearing: start slow and follow the form. And so I did. I started slow, I followed the form, and I began to hear from the nutritionist side how to change my diet in order to promote bone growth and good health. I also worked with another coach in the program before we got into the group coaching, who helped with some of my anxiety issues and some of the stress issues that I was dealing with. I just dug in. I had a positive attitude that I was going to do whatever it took to make this program work.

Edie: I love that. Can I ask — was the other coach Julia?

Vanni: It was Julia.

Edie: Let's give a shout-out to Julia. She's wonderful. And if you could just describe what's changed for you now, Vanni — how are things different?

Vanni: Wow. Where do I start?

Let me note that when I first started the group coaching program, I was a full-time caregiver for my mom, and at that point she was in hospice care and things were getting pretty stressful. But over the course of time in the coaching classes, I learned a different way to manage my mindset, and to help control that stress that I was feeling. It got me through the rest of my mom's time in hospice — she was there for almost three years — and then through her death, just going through the grieving process. The skills, for lack of a better word, that I learned through the coaching process really helped me manage stress and manage that sense of feeling overwhelmed with emotions. I'm still using those techniques, trying to manage my stress, trying to not be a perfectionist, because perfectionism brings on stress. I am just a different person in that regard.

And then the progress that I've made in terms of my bone work. I can't believe it. I started out as a very thin, non-muscular person. I had lost a lot of weight due to some health issues that I had been having, and was struggling to put weight on. I have finally managed to do that — I've put on 12 pounds, and I feel like I'm at the perfect weight. But the other thing is that through my program and through the supplements, I've also been able to put on muscle. It's not 12 more pounds of fat. I have a muscular frame, and I can see the muscles. That of course helps with the bone growth — having a muscular structure to, for lack of a better term, feed into the growth. So those are some of the ways that I have changed, and I feel on top of the world, so to speak.

Edie: Oh my gosh, I love that. For those listening who can't see us, I just have the biggest grin on my face, because this transformation — you can hear it — is full body. Whole body. It's physically a transformation, with the weight that you've gained, the muscle that you've gained, the definition that you have. And then spiritually, emotionally, mentally: learning how to manage your stress, process grief, and make all of this progress on your bone health while you were under what sounds like a tremendous amount of stress as a caregiver for three years. It's a huge win to celebrate.

Vanni: Well, I don't cease to be amazed, and I don't cease giving gratitude for that. I am so thankful, and I feel empowered to continue this journey. That's critical too, because you don't just fall off along the way. It's a lifelong journey, really. But the longer you're in it, the more you realize how wonderful it is and how beneficial it is when you're not just having stress hanging over you.

For me, I also am accomplishing more in my daily life. I'm getting things done that I would sometimes put off — I just wasn't motivated. Now I've developed new habits. I'm motivated. I look forward to the next day. It's just been great.

Edie: It's bigger than bone health, it sounds like.

Vanni: Yes, it is much bigger than bone health. But I might add: getting a hold of my stress level and lowering my cortisol, that too contributes to bone growth. Bone growth doesn't happen if you're not getting the right nutrition. It doesn't happen if you are anxious and stressed all the time. So I think it goes hand in hand, which is why this has been such a wonderful, well-balanced program. It addresses all the issues that a person might have that contribute to loss of bone, or that contribute to you not being able to grow bone.

Edie: Exactly. And to Vanni's point, we look at all lifestyle factors when we're coaching on reversing osteoporosis — sleep, stress management, nutrition. There are lots of different pillars that we explore, and stress is something that we consider, because if you are in prolonged states of stress, that can elevate your cortisol, and that contributes to decreased bone formation and increased bone breakdown.

So the gains that you've made in terms of better managing your stress — I'd love to hear a little bit more about that, Vanni. What has shifted for you there? I know you mentioned habits and mindset.

Vanni: Yes. I think one of the big shifts is that I have always been a perfectionist, and as a perfectionist, I want everything done, and I want it all done now, and I want it done perfectly. Those are bad habits. It's not a bad thing to want to get things done. It's not a bad thing to be productive. But sometimes as a perfectionist you can get stuck, because you can develop this mindset of: well, if I can't do it all at once, I'm too discouraged to do anything, so I don't even get started on it. Or I'll put off this big project that looks overwhelming and just do these little things, and then end up feeling like I'm not accomplishing what needs to be accomplished.

So one of the skills, if you will, that I have developed through this program is the ability to do a lot of thinking about what I'm thinking. What am I thinking right now about this? Why am I upset about this? What is the feeling I'm having about this? Is this productive for me? Well, then how can I think differently about this? Instead of looking at this big chunk of things to do — what if I just take a little chunk and get that done? Won't I feel better? Yes, I will.

So I have started chunking things, and I've started setting intentions for the day as to how much I want to accomplish. But I'm also realizing that the old perfectionist thing of, if you don't get to everything on your to-do list, then oh, you have blown it — no, you haven't. I am realizing that you do what you can, and rejoice in that. Give gratitude for that, and then move on to the next thing. If it doesn't get done today, there is tomorrow. Very few things, I'm discovering, have these huge deadlines that make you have to do all of this right now.

So, just tackling the perfectionism that has held me back, and that need to go over it and over it until it's just perfectly right, no mistakes — I am really moving beyond that. I'm excited about that, because it's a time consumer, it's stressful, and I'm enjoying living in the moment, accomplishing what I can get accomplished each day.

Edie: With more peace, it sounds like.

Vanni: Yes.

Edie: Perfection Reset is a course that I taught, I think toward the end of last year, right on the heels of Stress Reset. We can have compassion for why we are a perfectionist — that's a part of my health journey that I've worked on healing as well, not letting it hold me back. It can be a protective coping mechanism. We can understand why the brain is putting all this pressure on us to be perfect, to not make a mistake, because it doesn't want to see us fail. And we can also do exactly what you've been doing, where we're becoming that gentle, nonjudgmental observer of ourselves, and starting to witness the thoughts and get curious about them.

And gamify them. I love the "what if" thing that you're doing for your benefit. What if it doesn't have to be this hard? What if it doesn't have to take this much time? What if I could do enough by chunking it down and giving myself a longer runway?

Vanni: Right. And you know, being in the program, I signed up for quite a few of your coaching classes. You hear something once and you say, oh, that resonates with me. And then over time you kind of forget about that little technique. So then you hear it again in another course and you go, oh, I'm familiar with this. Why am I not doing it? What has happened here?

So it takes time to change your habits. It takes reinforcement. It takes determination — determination that you want to be at peace, determination that you don't want stress in your life, determination that you do want to grow bone. I think having that attitude, and being willing to do whatever you need to do to make that happen, is part of what brings you to that goal of wanting to be in good health and wanting to be at peace with yourself, and still growing bone, which was what I initially signed up for in this program.

Edie: Yes. I'm looking at one of my favorite quotes from you, from some of the feedback that you submitted at the end of one of our programs together. You have done so much mindset work alongside the physical work. You once said, "Being scatterbrained and unfocused is not who I am." Can you say more about that realization and the new identity you've created?

Vanni: Well, I have always considered myself scatterbrained, and I can give many examples as to why I've always considered myself that. I've been called that.

So as I went through the classes and we learned about changing your mindset, it occurred to me that I was telling myself all the time that I'm scattered, I'm not focused. And so I've changed how I see myself. I see myself as focused — and seeing myself as focused helps me become focused. It reminds me that, okay, today I'm not going to be going from one thing to another. I'm going to focus on this task right now. I'm going to get this task done, and I'm not going to let anything distract me. I need to put my cell phone away. I'm sorry, my husband, I'll tend to that in a few minutes, but right now I need to get this done.

So it becomes a practice. I'm feeling much more focused and much more able to stay attentive to whatever it is I want to accomplish in a day.

Edie: Congratulations, Vanni. I'm so happy for you. When we think about the results that you've created in terms of reversing your osteoporosis, can you take us through what that journey has looked like — what your progress has been like, and where you are now?

Vanni: When I started the program, I had some pretty bad DEXA scores. After being in the program for a while — maybe a year — I had another DEXA scan, and I had growth in my spine, and I did not lose any bone in the pelvis or the hips. That was new. I had always lost bone in every DEXA I had ever had. And I was using the same DEXA machine, at the same hospital that I had gone to before, so it was not like going from one machine to a different one. It was the same machine, which they say is important for getting accurate results.

Then Dr. Doug introduced us to another way of measuring bone growth, called the REMS scan. I had one of those done, and it had similar results to what the DEXA scan had shown. Then another year had passed, so I got the REMS again — and this last REMS that I got in January showed that I was out of osteoporosis range in my spine, and that I was still holding steady in the femur area and the hips. So that to me is huge progress.

And we've talked about, well, why aren't you making any growth in the femur neck? One of the types of exercises that I tend to avoid are the ones that are difficult and the ones that are focused on the lower body. So the answer I got as to why I'm not moving forward on this one was: number one, it takes longer to grow bone in your femur, that's just the way it is. And number two — oh, you're not doing the exercises that promote growth, because you don't like those exercises. So I'm changing my workout routine. I will not stop doing what I'm doing, but I will be doing more of, and more consistently doing, the lower body workouts that address that area.

Edie: Such good feedback to have. And it requires such patience to get that data — I think you said you waited a year for the second REMS scan, right?

Vanni: Yes.

Edie: So many of the clients that I coach want the feedback, to know that what they're doing is making a difference, and it requires such a strong degree of trust and patience to stay the course. I'm just so happy for you, Vanni, and for the progress that you've made.

Vanni: Well, I just want to say that when I entered the program, I was no different from anybody else who gets on. Initially they share their fears, they share their anxieties, they share their frustration with: I don't feel like eating this much. How can I possibly get this much protein in? I'm afraid I'm going to break a bone doing my workout. I was right there — same place.

It took me six months to get to where I could eat the amount of protein and take the supplements without feeling, what is going on here, I just can't stuff another bite in my mouth. It takes time to work through that. But you have to be persistent and you have to be patient. And I learned right away that if you're using five-pound weights to start with, you're not growing muscle. You've got to work up to that. I wanted to be muscular after a month. I wanted that definition. I wanted to prove that I'm building my muscle so that I can grow bone. And it just takes longer than that.

So I think being patient is critical, and learning to trust your provider and learning to trust yourself — and sometimes trusting the provider comes before you trust yourself.

Which brings me to something else. One of the things that has helped me with the coaching process — I don't know if you remember, Edie, but when I first signed up, there were two things that I told you I didn't like. One was that I get nervous speaking in public, and I know that there are a lot of others who don't want to share and don't want to speak in public. I braved it and got on, and then there was a point at which I was like, oh, you'd better stop doing this, because you're talking too much. Let somebody else do this — somebody else needs that. But I learned to build my confidence through stepping out and speaking. And I also built my confidence by listening to others who were brave enough to get online and share their story.

So I can't say enough about how much I've learned just from other participants interacting with you in the program, because it has helped me and it's helped give me confidence. Those are two things that I think are really important. One, you have to be patient and determined. And two, it pays to be involved and participate to the maximum extent possible without stressing you out. You can't do everything, but you choose what works for you, and then you participate as diligently as you can.

Edie: Vanni, you just shared so many nuggets of wisdom, and you are not alone in noticing those thoughts like, oh, I'm taking up too much space, I'm talking too much. Sometimes I hear from clients thoughts like: no one else can relate to what I'm experiencing, so I shouldn't share it. I'm so glad that you spoke to this part of your transformation, and to that hesitancy that many of us have, especially in a group program, to share in front of others. It does feel vulnerable. And it's so nice to hear how you can receive support, allow support in, as you give yourself permission to share — and also by witnessing others who are getting coached.

And the other thing: anxiety around strength training is real. I heard you say, what if I break a bone — you already had several fractures. So how did you work through any concern around strength training, and are there any tips or advice that you'd share with others?

Vanni: Well, I started out with the workout program that was recommended, which was Trubee Training with Dr. Nick Trubee. He was quick to say in the training that you need to watch your form, and you need to start slowly with lighter weight. Don't overdo it. I knew what I was capable of in terms of lifting a weight, and so I did start out slowly. I felt anxious, and there were some things that I did where I thought, well, I hope this is okay. I had to work through it.

If I ever started feeling pain anywhere, I would stop and I would look at my form. Am I doing this correctly? Am I using too much weight right now? So I was just very cautious. And for some reason I developed confidence as I started being able to lift more and push more. But I am very cautious about making sure I do things with correct form, because you can hurt yourself if you're not in good form. And I don't overdo the weight — like I say, I've worked up to what I do. So I think that's pretty much how I've tackled it. And also by listening to others, and how they've improved, and how they went about doing it. I feel very confident now about what I'm doing, because I'm growing bone and I feel stronger.

The other thing too is that my breaks occurred because of clumsy falls. So some of the workouts that I do involve building your ability to stand up without falling — balance. And I do tai chi, so that has helped my balance. I think that part is important too, because a lot of the falls — I mean, as we get older, if the bones are really brittle, you can have a bone break and then that causes you to fall. But many, many of the breaks are from falling. So if you don't fall, you decrease your chance of breaking a bone. I'm cautious about that too. I'm working on balance as well as the strength training. So strength and balance, I think, are important.

Edie: Great tips. And when you think about this osteoporosis journey, big picture, what has it taught you about yourself?

Vanni: Well, I can do what I set my mind to do. And I don't have to be afraid to try new things that I'm not familiar with. I can learn new things. That's one thing it's taught me.

Edie: Love that. Is there anything that you wish you would have known sooner about osteoporosis?

Vanni: The reason I did not do anything about the osteoporosis early, before it got to where it was, is that I was scared of the medication. I'm an avid reader, and if you tell me I need to take a certain medication, I look it up. I'm one of those. I didn't like what I was seeing, so I did nothing.

And honestly, I've never liked working out. I've always considered myself athletic — I played softball as a kid, rode my bicycle all the time, which doesn't build bone. I played tennis and racquetball, all of that. I considered myself athletic, but I hated working out, because I thought it was boring and it didn't produce fast results for me. And again, I think that's the perfection tendency: all or nothing, let's have it now.

I wish that I had known that if I took certain steps early on, I could have prevented probably the breaks that I ended up having when I fell, and I would have certainly prevented the osteoporosis from getting to the point that it was dangerous. So I wish I had been more educated on alternative options, and I wish that I had had someone, or some program, that motivated me to stick with exercise — the appropriate exercise for building muscle. But I didn't have that.

I think as a person I have needed a support group. I have needed somebody to keep me accountable. And over the course of someone keeping me accountable and helping me see what can be done, I have developed some new habits, and now I don't need anybody to tell me I need to go work out today. I will go work out today. So that's some of what I wish I'd had, or known, early on.

Edie: Such an important message. And it makes me excited for Dr. Doug to share his wisdom with younger demographics, so that we can all be mindful of things like strength training and impact and protein — all of these little lifestyle shifts that we can make to support our aging and longevity.

The other thing that you just shared that I want to make sure listeners hear is that you allowed support in. You didn't make yourself suffer by going it alone. And now you've created an entirely new identity where strength training is part of who you are and how you be. You don't need the accountability — it's just what you do. And it's also not a problem if we don't love it. It's not a problem. I still don't love it. We can work through all of that and still take steps to make it easier for us to do the thing we want to do, so that we can feel and function our best.

Is there anything that I haven't asked yet, Vanni, or anything that you want to make sure we cover in our time together today?

Vanni: One thing that we've discussed along the way is journaling. I told you from the get-go, I was not a journaler. I don't like writing things down. I just don't. But I've come to enjoy it. I've started doing it again. This is one of those things where — oh, that's not me, I don't do that. But at that point I had enough trust in you that I tried it. Sometimes writing down what I was thinking and feeling helped me get through it, and helped me kind of put it aside.

The other thing that you've encouraged is gratitude journaling, where you just write down 10 things you're grateful for. I've done that, and I am still doing that. You're not busy telling us on a regular basis that we need to journal our gratitudes — I'm just still doing it, and I enjoy it. It's a part of what I do every day. I do forget once in a while, but when I forget, I'm not upset with myself, because — I'm not a perfectionist anymore. I just say, oh dear, I haven't journaled for two days. That's okay. Do it today.

Changing that mindset causes me not to give up because I've missed two days, and it causes me not to be upset with myself because I've missed two days. And that's huge for me.

Edie: It is huge. It's such an important win — not just because it impacts the way we feel, but our self-talk, the way we see ourselves, the way we think about ourselves. The language that we use toward ourselves creates an emotion in the body, and our emotional well-being can impact our physiological state, whether we're releasing cortisol or whether we're releasing another hormone called DHEA, which can be supportive of building bone.

So when you hear Vanni and me talk about the importance of examining your thoughts, or how beneficial a gratitude practice can be from an internal state, it is sending this beautiful chemical cascade of health, of rebuilding, of just healing through the body. So it's not fluff. It matters.

Vanni: It's not fluff.

Edie: Before we close, what words of advice would you give to someone who's newly diagnosed and is in a state of true panic and fear?

Vanni: Acknowledge that that's where you are. And then allow others into your life who will guide you to resources and skills that will help you get through that anxiety, and help you move forward and progress toward a healthier life that's less full of stress, and where you're able to eventually begin building bone. And be patient.

Edie: Yes. Vanni, just remind listeners how long you've been in the program, since we're speaking to patience.

Vanni: I have been in the program a little over two years. And again, I started out with all the same anxieties, fears, and lack of confidence that many others are entering the program with. We start where we are, and make progress — sometimes slow progress, and sometimes faster than we expect.

Edie: What I hope listeners take away from our conversation today is that your progress doesn't require perfection. It doesn't require the ideal circumstance either. You moved through this with stress, and you've wrapped your arms around all of it, and I just couldn't be happier for you. So thank you so much for taking time out of your morning to share your story with us.

Vanni: Oh, it's my pleasure.

Edie: If you'd like more information on Dr. Doug Lucas, or if you're curious to learn more about reversing osteoporosis or joining The OsteoCollective, be sure to check the show notes. I have linked Dr. Doug's resources there for you.

If you enjoyed this episode, please do me a favor and rate it. Your reviews will help me help more people. And if you'd like my support in your health journey, you can head to my website at ediefeffer.com, where you can check out the different ways that we can work together. You can also come hang out with me on Instagram — I'm @ediefeffer. I will see you here next week.