Healing Beyond Bones: Karen Landis' Path to Peace and Strength

This transcript is lightly edited for readability.

Karen: I feel, at the end of the day, that for a lot of us, whether we realize it or not, we contribute to our own stress a lot of times by the way we deal with it, or don't deal with it. I feel like that was me. Yes, it was stressful, but I feel like I was even making it more stressful than what it needed to be.

I am surprised at myself when I look at myself even six, eight months ago, when I received the diagnosis, and where I'm at emotionally today — because of the practices that I've put into place. Not living in a state of fear and anxiety, and thinking that every time I go out for my walk, am I going to fall? Am I going to fracture my hip? I really don't have those thoughts anymore. Just six to eight months ago, I was not even able to sleep through the night without thinking of the what ifs.

I know that what I'm doing is going to make a difference. It's already making a difference.

Edie: I am Edie Feffer, and welcome to Anchored — a show for women who are committed to living a life where everything they do and are begins with self-trust. They're unshakable in their truth, rooted in their emotional well-being, and steady in their commitment to self-love and body love. That is what it means to be anchored. Our conversations dive deep into all aspects of health and wellness, from food freedom and spirituality to routines and relationships. This is where you come to stay grounded.

Hello. I have a very special guest on today's podcast episode. In February of this year, I was super excited to start coaching with Dr. Doug Lucas. This is in addition to the work that I do in my private coaching practice. Dr. Doug has a nationwide clinic that specializes in reversing osteoporosis.

Today's episode is a conversation with Karen Landis, who is a patient that I have had the pleasure of coaching. She is a beautiful human being inside and out, and she just so openly shares what her osteoporosis journey has been like. We spent the majority of our time talking about mindset and stress management, which are two topics I care deeply about.

Osteoporosis can be a scary diagnosis, and we dig into how Karen has been able to manage her mindset around osteoporosis to reduce her stress. So whether you have an osteoporosis diagnosis or not — if you're someone who is wanting to reduce your stress too, if you're wanting to improve your mindset, or if you're navigating your own health challenge — I encourage you to listen, because Karen's perspective and transformation in a matter of just a few short months will no doubt inspire you. I hope you enjoy.

Karen and I have been coaching together for about six months now, and it has just been such a joy to get to witness all of the progress you've been making on your bone health journey, and to see the transformation that you've already created in just a few short months, really.

To start, I think it would be helpful if you could just introduce yourself, Karen, and tell us a little bit about who you are. And then if you could take us back to what it was like when you received your osteoporosis diagnosis.

Karen: Well, my name is Karen Landis, and I'm happy to be on the podcast today. I've been married 47 years to my high school sweetheart, and we have three children. I'm a grammy to eight grandchildren, which I love spending time with, so that's a big part of my life. I'm semi-retired. I work three days a week as a leasing specialist, and I certainly enjoy my four-day weekends as well.

I love to e-bike. That's one of the hobbies that I have. My husband and I just did a 40-mile e-bike ride just yesterday. So that's something we enjoy doing together.

But back to January. It's quite a story. I had osteopenia for several years, and it was coming time for my DEXA scan in December. I had a DEXA scan not really thinking anything would change, and lo and behold, my doctor called me the first week of January and said that I had moved into osteoporosis — especially in my hip. I had it a little bit in my spine as well.

So it was very scary. It kind of shocked me. Looking back now, I realize it probably shouldn't have shocked me, because I already had osteopenia. But I remember the day clearly. I received a call from my doctor, and she just very matter-of-factly said, you have osteoporosis, and I'm going to be putting you on a drug called Fosamax, and I'll be calling that into the pharmacy for you, so you can just pick that up.

I'd never heard of Fosamax before. I went to dinner that night — my sisters and their hubbies — we were having dinner celebrating my dad's 88th birthday. And we're sitting around the table, and he's telling us all about our favorite aunt, whose life had just been pretty much ruined by a drug. And he looked over at my stepmom and said, I think the drug is called Fosamax.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew that I would not be taking that drug. I said to my husband on the way home, I'm going to do some research on this drug, but I know that I'm not going to be taking that drug for my osteoporosis. But I also know that I have to do something.

So that began the journey. I did some research on my own, as we all need to do — be our own advocates — and I saw the horrible side effects of Fosamax. I'd already been dealing with some major, major gut issues, and I noticed that the side effects said that it would make gut issues worse. So I knew for sure that I wasn't going to be going down the road of big pharmaceuticals to heal my osteoporosis.

And next enters Dr. Doug Lucas. My husband is always good about setting me on the right path. We were taking a trip to Florida in early February, and so he said, I'm going to order two books for you and we'll just do our own research. We'll both read them, and then we'll see where we go from here.

One of those was Dr. Doug Lucas's book on reversing osteoporosis. And what really caught my eye with that book was the fact that he was recommending natural means, and he said he very seldom uses pharmaceuticals. So he had my attention, let's just say. And the rest is history. I became one of his patients back in March, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that it's been the best decision I ever made.

Edie: I am so happy to hear that, Karen. Thank you so much for taking us through what it was like to receive your diagnosis — the guidance that you got from your doctor, and then your willingness to stay patient and explore other avenues for reversing your osteoporosis that feel more in alignment with the approach that you want to take.

Can you tell us a little bit about what your experience has been like so far, in terms of taking a holistic approach?

Karen: It's been great. I mean, it's been a little overwhelming. I had all my blood markers done back in March, and then when my report came back, of course there were a number of things that needed attention.

So I've been placed on hormone replacement therapy. I take probably about 15 supplements a day. Initially that was overwhelming, but then the more I've been reading about things, I know that I'm on the right path. And I've been feeling so much better. Once the hormones kicked in, after about two months, I started really having my energy back, and starting to feel like my old self again. So I feel like it's been nothing but positive.

The diet that they have everybody on — it's just helpful to know that I'm a chat away from any question I might have along the way. I can message someone and usually hear back from them before the end of the day. That's been helpful for me, because as I mentioned, I do have a number of health issues I'm dealing with. My gut is probably the second biggest one after the osteoporosis.

I just recently had to really push for a test called an endoscopy, and I just had that, and they found not one, not two, but three things wrong. So I'm dealing with that issue as well. But again, that was at the recommendation of my dietitian through Optimal Bone Health. She's the one that really encouraged me to push for that test. And had it not been for that test, I wouldn't have found out what the three things are that are wrong. One of them is pretty serious, to the point where it could turn into cancer if I didn't do something about it.

Edie: I know we've talked through what receiving that additional information has been like on your health journey too. I just want to celebrate how you've really been your own advocate and trusted your gut, followed your intuition. With each new piece of information that you've received on your health journey, you've done such a good job of staying true to yourself.

When I hear some of the information that you've received in recent months — you've dealt with a fair amount of disruptors, and stress. And you have done such a fabulous job of wrapping your arms around all of that stress and managing your mindset.

I'd love, Karen, if you could speak to the progress that you've made there, or any of the shifts that you've seen in yourself in terms of stress management. How are you managing the stress that is a normal part of a health journey? To your point, it can be overwhelming at first. It can be scary to receive a diagnosis. Oftentimes there's fear of the unknowns.

Karen: Well, it was scary, and I had a lot of fear initially. When the diagnosis came in January, it was a real blow to me.

And then I took a course that you had, a group coaching class through Optimal Bone Health, and it was on stress and mind management. That was just the perfect ticket for me at the perfect time — that I needed to be managing this extra level of stress because of my health issues that were popping up.

I don't know how many times I've had to — where my brain has wanted to go down a little bunny trail, I call it, of fear, of worry, of anxiety. That would be my natural way to approach things like this. I've had to kind of pull my brain back and get it moving in the right direction.

And I will say that I feel like I've focused on being a lot more positive, and realizing that my negative emotions were not serving me well. Believe me, I've had a lot of negative emotions. They're normal, but you have to learn how to manage them. I'm still on a journey, I'm taking baby steps, but when the negative emotions come, I now have better tools on how to deal with them and get things moving in a positive direction.

Edie: I love that visual you painted of scooping your brain up. I always say we want to pick your brain up and walk it back to this present moment, versus allowing it to go down this what-if, worry, rabbit hole.

I am curious to hear, Karen, what tools are you using? How have you been able to reduce your stress? Are there any practices that you've put in place?

Karen: Like I said, outside of getting my brain and my body on the same boat, so to say, and rowing in the same direction — I've had stress at work, but I feel like I am dealing with it a lot better, because I've set up the boundaries that I need to set up, and I feel like I'm showing up for myself. I think that's the biggest thing.

I'm a perfectionist by nature. I've dealt with perfectionism my entire life. And so I'm good at showing up for other people, because I'm always trying to smooth things over or make things better. Like when I host, I just want everything to be perfect.

But I feel like I'm finally showing up for myself. I know that I'm worth it, but when we made the financial commitment to come on board with this program, I just felt there were going to be some real nuggets in there for me — and there have been. To the fact that I'm worth it. My health is worth it. And if this helps me to be around another decade longer than I normally would have been, it's worth it for me.

So again, I think just being more positive has brought me so much more joy. I'm surprised at myself. I really try to keep the negative thoughts at bay, and when I do find myself going down that negative path, I just ask myself a few questions. Is this really how I want to be feeling today? And again, walk my brain back to the present, where I want to be, and not be living in that fear or anxiety for what the future might bring.

Edie: I love that you touched on so many points that I think women who are working to reverse their osteoporosis can relate to, in terms of perfectionism, wanting to show up perfectly, wanting to do it right, being pulled in so many different directions.

I know you wear several different hats — with your career, with your family life, you're a wife, a mom, you have eight grandchildren. You have done such a beautiful job of giving yourself permission to prioritize yourself. Is that something that's new? Is it a more recent shift?

Karen: It is recent. I read a book several years ago by Shauna Niequist called Present Over Perfect. I really gleaned a lot from that book, and I felt like I was already on that journey of being more present and really dealing with perfectionism.

But then when you're given a diagnosis like osteoporosis, it really can kind of knock you off — how do I want to describe that? There was a lot of fear with it, but it just kind of knocked me back a little bit, because it's a scary diagnosis, obviously.

I just feel like I want to live life more in the present moment, and not always be thinking about the fear of fracturing, the fear of falling, the fear of all the bad things that can happen when you have osteoporosis. I want to really live in the present moment and really be enjoying the people that I'm with at that moment. So yeah, that's been more recent, definitely more recent for me. And just having my eyes opened. And again, the group coaching class — there were just so many good nuggets in there for me that were very helpful in my journey.

Edie: I'm so happy to hear that. I'd be curious to know, are there specific tools that you feel like helped move you along in your journey? Do any stand out to you?

Karen: The emotional guidance scale that you shared with us — that was really, really helpful. Just all the little nuggets. I love the group interaction as well, because it was so wonderful to see so many other women that are dealing with the exact same thing that I am. Some of them are dealing with caring for grandchildren, a lot of similar situations, having a very full platter, how to manage the to-do list, that kind of thing.

As far as the tools, I feel like I'm using a lot of the tools that you shared. The thought model, that's one of the things that I use. If I am feeling stressed or something like that, I'll just take a step back. I've really learned to just pause and kind of run it through my brain before I take action. Just pause and say, why am I feeling this way? What is causing this stress to be there? And kind of run it through that thought model that you shared with us. And usually it works. It definitely works to help get me out of maybe a depressing mood or a depressing thought.

Edie: I'm so happy to hear that.

The emotional guidance scale that Karen is mentioning comes from Abraham Hicks. I always want to give credit to the people who have helped shape the way I teach and coach.

You can picture the emotional guidance scale kind of like a ladder, and each rung on the ladder represents a different emotion. The ladder has about 30 different emotions on it. At the top of the ladder we have emotions like freedom, and love, and appreciation, and joy. And then at the bottom of the ladder we have lower vibrations, or emotions like fear, despair, grief, and powerlessness.

This tool that Karen is mentioning is one that I like to use when I'm teaching how to be onto your emotions. That's one of my favorite tools for emotional regulation. And for anyone who's moving through an osteoporosis journey, it's a tool that you can use to see yourself progress up the ladder as you're moving through all of these different emotions.

Another way that we can use this tool is to create relief when you can more specifically identify an emotion beyond just mad, sad, or glad. It's one way to feel seen, to create comfort in the body, to start to regulate your nervous system, and then to eventually reach for a better-feeling thought to help you move up the emotional guidance scale.

And I'm so pumped to hear that the thought model has been an effective tool as well.

Karen: That's been very helpful. So many times — as we all do, we all have a range of emotions we're going through — but I feel like the thought model just helps to pause and reflect, and not allow our whole day or our joy to be stolen just because we're going through something very scary.

I'm much more protective about what thoughts I will allow into my brain. And when my brain likes to go down that route, I love the analogy that you shared, and I use this too, where you're riding in a car, and fear and worry and anxiety — they do get to come along, because they are part of our journey, but they have to ride in the back seat. And only my calm and grounded self gets to ride in the front seat. That analogy helps me. I'm a visual person, so it really helps me to put everybody where they need to be. If that makes any sense.

Edie: Yes. I'm so glad. You do such a good job of integrating the work, implementing it, and embodying it. The fear, the worry, the doubt — all of it can come on the journey with us. But when we're doing thought work, or when we're doing mindset work, we're working to reduce your stress. Our job is to help those emotions get more comfortable being in the back seat, and our highest and best self, our calm grounded self, our confident self, is the one in the driver's seat. And that is what I have seen you do in such a beautiful way over the past couple of months, Karen.

I'm curious — since you've started being more onto your thoughts, and in observation mode with your emotions, how has that impacted your day-to-day life?

Karen: It's just given me new energy. Obviously I know that I'm on hormones, so I knew that I would probably feel differently after a couple of months of hormone replacement therapy. But I feel like just the tools that I have at my disposal to deal with stress, and deal with the negative emotions that do come up from time to time — I just feel like it's been empowering.

To know that I don't have to stay in that place of negativity. I can take control of that, and it starts in your brain. I guess that was the biggest thing for me. I knew it, but I wasn't really practicing it. It really all starts with my mindset. And I feel like I've had a shift in my mindset of just, again, wanting to be more present, wanting to be more positive. And I feel like I've received a lot of joy from that.

Edie: Congrats to you for doing the work. That right there, I think, is the perfect example of how, as scary of an experience it can be to receive a diagnosis like osteoporosis, it can be a portal to healing so much more than just your bones. To hear you say that you're receiving joy, and that you're proud of yourself for the upgrades that you've made in terms of stress management — that just makes my heart so happy for you.

Karen: It makes me very happy too. Definitely. Because I realized, at the end of the day, how my stress was contributing to my osteoporosis.

I feel, at the end of the day, that for a lot of us, whether we realize it or not, we contribute to our own stress a lot of times by the way we deal with it, or don't deal with it. I feel like that was me. Yes, it was stressful, but I feel like I was even making it more stressful than what it needed to be.

Edie: I'd love to hear more, because I think this is something that a lot of patients can relate to. How do you feel like you used to intensify the stress? What did that look like?

Karen: Again, thinking negatively. Thinking negative thoughts will definitely take you down the road of — I've not had a fracture, and I'm not interested in experiencing one. But the thought of fracturing my hip, and having to be dependent on somebody else, and all of the what ifs that can come when you get a diagnosis like this.

They were there in the beginning, but now I just don't allow my brain to go down that bunny trail. I really try to master my thoughts a little better and stay on the positive. And I feel like that has served me well these last several months. It's only been really several months.

Edie: You've been so intentional with where you're directing your focus, where you're putting your time and energy in terms of your thoughts and emotions.

For anyone who's wondering why we're talking about stress specific to osteoporosis: when you're working on reversing osteoporosis, reducing stress is a crucial part of a healing protocol, because when you're stressed, that can impact your body's ability to heal and maintain your bone health. When you're stressed, your body produces hormones like cortisol, which can interfere with bone formation and can increase bone breakdown.

So all of the work that Karen has done to manage her mindset and to reduce stress is helping her body create a more favorable environment to improve bone density, and to heal and repair. That is why we've spent a big part of our time together focusing on stress reduction and mindset, and using mindset to reduce stress.

I'd be curious to hear, Karen — what advice would you give someone who is just starting out on their bone health journey, if they've just received the diagnosis? Do you have any words of wisdom?

Karen: I just recently acquired a second copy of Dr. Doug's book, and I didn't need it, because I still had my first one, which I have highlighted and marked up a lot from when I read it back in January. But I would definitely recommend reading Dr. Doug's book. It's a small book, but it has a wealth of knowledge in it.

Just really being your own advocate. Where the doctor may give you a very powerful prescription drug to take, I would just caution you about taking that without doing your own research. I'm not saying that drugs aren't good — I think there is a time and a place. I'm actually on a drug myself right now for some gut issues, and I fully believe it's right for me for right now. I'm not planning to be on it very long. Pharmaceuticals are good for a season.

But I would definitely recommend doing your own research, reading Dr. Doug's book, and just being open to more natural things that you can do to reverse your osteoporosis.

I'm very excited to get my bone markers done again here in a couple of months. And I don't know when I'll be having another DEXA scan, but I'm confident that what I'm doing is going to make a difference. I think when you can gain that confidence, that you know you're on the right path, and you know you're doing everything you can — there's a joy that comes with that.

I'm not saying, like I said, initially the fear was there, the anxiety was there. It was a very scary diagnosis, and I think it is for anyone that receives it. Because I'm a very active 66-year-old. I have a lot of life to live. I'm very involved with my grandchildren. And the last thing I want is to have to be laid up in a hospital bed somewhere with a fracture, and take months to heal. So I'm going to do everything I can to avoid that.

Edie: Yes, and you're doing it with such grace, while still living life, traveling, spending time with your grandkids. You had what sounds like such a fun summer.

Is there any part of this process, Karen, that surprised you? Any part of your osteoporosis healing journey that has come as a surprise?

Karen: I think I am surprised at myself when I look at myself even six, eight months ago, when I received the diagnosis, and where I'm at emotionally today — because of the practices that I've put into place. I'm surprised at myself that I've been able to get to this place in six, eight months, and not be living in a state of fear and anxiety, thinking that every time I go out for my walk, am I going to fall? Am I going to fracture my hip?

I really don't have those thoughts anymore, because I've allowed my brain to create a path that doesn't allow them in, so they're just not really welcome anymore. I feel like I've created new pathways of thinking, and just trying to think more positively, and not allow those negative thoughts to impact me in a way that just six to eight months ago they would have. I was not even able to sleep through the night without thinking of the what ifs.

I must say, I just don't have those what ifs anymore, because I know that what I'm doing is going to make a difference.

Edie: Karen, this makes my heart so happy. It already is making a difference.

And what's so fun to hear, as you share more of your story, more of the emotional side of it — we can see how interconnected all of these pillars of health are. Because of the work that you've done to reduce your stress and shift your mindset, you've reaped the benefits in terms of improving the quality of your sleep. And that's also something that we focus on when we're working to reverse osteoporosis. To see how quickly you've created this transformation mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually is such a win to celebrate.

I'm curious, Karen. As you know, our program is all-encompassing. We're taking a holistic approach. There are a lot of moving pieces. It is very easy to get overwhelmed, when we're thinking about sleep, stress, movement, mindset, supplements, potentially hormones.

Something that you said that stood out to me in one of our sessions, that I absolutely loved, was: I've made the choice to make myself a priority before I set off to help others. I've made the choice to make myself a priority before I set off to help others.

That's not easy to do, especially when we feel like the to-do list is long and you have so many people in your life that you want to show up for. If someone's struggling with that, do you have any guidance, any thoughts or words of encouragement, on how you've been able to make that shift, or what giving yourself that permission to put yourself first has done for you, or for the others that you show up for?

Karen: Well, first, the thing that you have to realize is you are worth it. I had to realize that I am worth it.

I think I always had a mentality that it was selfish to put myself first, that there was a certain form of selfishness in that. But then I realized, in the group coaching that we did with Edie and all the others that were in the group — we all shared. And if we don't put our health first and we don't take care of ourselves, there isn't going to be anything left to give out to anyone else.

For me, I have eight grandchildren. So I just realized I have to put my health first, so that I have something to give out to my husband, and to my children, and to my grandchildren. And then even at work, the people that I'm coming in contact with every day. You have to kind of get your cup full before it can overflow in a positive way to others.

So once I grabbed hold of that, I realized, no, it's not selfish at all to put your health journey first and do all that you can — whether it's eating the proper diet, getting the right exercise, managing your stress. All of those things are just important, so that we can show up for other people.

Edie: I love that. I love the headspace that you're in with making the choice. It feels calm and grounded, and like it's coming from this place of being so empowered.

Karen: I'm still as busy as ever. Like I said, I'm still working three days a week, and on a day off, if I'm going up to babysit, I prioritize getting my walk in before I leave, because I know that later in the day I get more tired and I probably won't walk. So I'm making that a priority.

The other morning it was about five thirty in the morning, still dark outside, and I was going out for my hour walk, just because I knew it was important for me to get it in that day, and that's when I needed to do it, because I was leaving on the early side to help babysit.

Those are the kind of small shifts that I'm making, where before I would have said, oh, I'm just too busy to take my walk, or I'm too busy to do my exercises today. I could have easily talked myself out of doing the important things. But I'm not doing that anymore. I'm making an effort to get those things done, no matter what time of the day I have to do them.

Edie: I love the thought that you've mentioned a few times today: I'm worth it. This to me is why reversing osteoporosis can be a spiritual journey — one where you're improving your self-trust, increasing your self-love, and liking the way you treat yourself, liking the way you make yourself feel. Thank you for sharing all of that, of what it's looked like in the past and what it looks like for you now.

Karen: It's really helped me in my journey. And again, I'm taking baby steps, so I have a long way to go yet. But my journey is helping me make better choices.

Another one of the things that stood out in our group coaching was just to take the thought and ask yourself the question: do I like thinking that thought or not? And then, what am I going to do about it? That's helpful too — getting your brain on board, and being able to analyze the thoughts that you're thinking and get them to a place where they're serving you well, and they're not bringing you down.

Edie: One of the concepts that Karen is referring to right now is this idea of becoming what I describe as a gentle, nonjudgmental observer.

As you're working toward reversing your osteoporosis, I want you to imagine that you're like a neutral third party, just hovering above yourself and watching yourself move throughout your day. And I want you to ask yourself three questions. What am I thinking? What am I feeling? And do I like my choices?

As you're getting into observation mode around your thoughts and your feelings and your choices, and really starting to ask yourself, do I like the way I'm thinking, the way I'm feeling, and the choices that I'm making — through a nonjudgmental lens — it makes it easier to identify where the opportunities for upleveling may be. To challenge the thoughts, or to pick new thoughts, or to break down limiting beliefs.

Are there any other thoughts that you want to share? Anything top of mind for you before we start to close today, Karen?

Karen: Like I said, it is a journey. For anybody that is watching this, and you might be newly diagnosed with osteoporosis — there is hope. I will say that I never thought I would be at this place in such a short period of time. But allow yourself to take the baby steps that you need, and get with the right doctor or the right program that links with your belief system, and then jump in with everything that you have to manage it. And it will reap benefits. It really will.

Edie: Yes. And on that note, Karen, let's close.

I know in our last session we were talking about how this is such an exciting point in the year. I love that we're recording this on September 2nd. We've got four months left in the year. You have so much momentum on your side. You're in such a positive headspace.

When you think about closing out the year, and where you are right now in your health journey, what are you most excited for? Where do you see yourself going?

Karen: Well, I'm excited to get my blood work done and to see what progress I've made on that end, because with Dr. Doug they do a lot of blood work, and they're testing all kinds of biomarkers. I'm excited for that.

But I'm just excited to start the new year on a more positive note than I did last year. Because last year, coming into the new year — it was January 8th that I got the diagnosis for osteoporosis, but I'd had my DEXA scan in December. So between December and January there was a lot of anxiety on my end, a lot of fear about what's this going to look like when it comes back.

So I'm just glad to be in a much more positive mindset. And I'm looking forward to the holidays and going into the new year totally different than just last year.

Edie: Yes. What a beautiful transformation you're creating, because of the way you're showing up for yourself. You're just doing such a fabulous job. Like I said, it's an honor to be able to witness your health journey.

Thank you so much for sharing your story today. I know that it's going to help so many women feel empowered to take control of their health, and you are proof of all of the possibilities that exist in terms of reversing osteoporosis, managing your mindset, and reducing stress. So thank you again.

Karen: You're welcome. Thank you.

Edie: I have two final thoughts that I want to quickly share with you.

One, I know Karen referenced something called the thought model, and for the sake of time I didn't have the opportunity to explain that tool, like I did with the brief overview of the emotional guidance scale. So perhaps that could be a future podcast topic, because it is something that I've found to be very effective for mindset and stress management.

And then most importantly, if you'd like more information on Dr. Doug Lucas, or if you're curious to learn more about reversing osteoporosis, be sure to check the show notes. I have linked Dr. Doug's resources there for you.

If you enjoyed this episode, please do me a favor and rate it. Your reviews will help me help more people. And if you'd like my support in your health journey, you can head to my website at ediefeffer.com, where you can check out the different ways that we can work together. You can also come hang out with me on Instagram — I'm @ediefeffer. I will see you here next week.