Collegiate Athlete Turned Attorney: Overcoming Body Dysmorphia and Bulimia

This transcript is lightly edited for readability. Content note: this conversation includes discussion of bulimia, disordered eating, and body dysmorphia.

Katy: I'm not going to lie to you — when I heard food freedom, I was like, okay, I'm going to go along with this. But that's really what you've given me. I have chills thinking about it, because in the past year, especially in a food context — and we're getting there in a body image context as well — I don't think of food as good or bad anymore. And I have chills all over my body, because that is food freedom. The weight loss is great. Losing inches is fantastic. But seeing how my brain and my mindset have shifted, to be kinder, to not think of it in terms of all or nothing.

Edie: I am Edie Feffer, and welcome to Anchored — a show for women who are committed to living a life where everything they do and are begins with self-trust. They're unshakable in their truth, rooted in their emotional well-being, and steady in their commitment to self-love and body love. That is what it means to be anchored. Our conversations dive deep into all aspects of health and wellness, from food freedom and spirituality to routines and relationships. This is where you come to stay grounded.

I am so freaking pumped for you to listen to today's podcast episode. This is a conversation that I had with a dear, dear client, Katy Jones.

When I listened to the recording, my first thought was, I cannot wait to put this into the world, because I know it's going to be so expansive and so helpful for anyone who is working toward a health and wellness goal, to be able to hear what Katy's journey has been like.

My second thought was, honestly, I was a little bit critical of myself. I am new to podcasting. This was the first episode that I recorded where I'm interviewing a client, and you can hear that I'm a bit nervous. I wish that I would have been a little more relaxed, and quite frankly, less robotic. I'm asking her questions and she's responding beautifully, and then I follow up with another question, and I wish that I would have engaged a bit more in a dialogue.

What I am proud of is the fact that I'm practicing what I preach, which is progress over perfection. This podcast, Anchored, is going to be an awesome vehicle for me to further unhook from my own perfectionistic tendencies and to grow as an interviewer. So I am appreciative of you just being on this journey with me.

We cover so, so much in this episode: self-talk, movement, mindset. We have an awesome conversation around timelines with weight loss goals, and how those two things have evolved for Katy on her health and wellness journey.

I do want to say one important note. There is a content warning that goes with this episode. We do discuss bulimia, disordered eating, and body dysmorphia. So if this is a sensitive topic for you, please skip ahead.

And two, as I was listening back to this episode, I heard Katy say several times that the gift I've given her — as she was describing improvements with things like her self-talk, her relationship with food, mindset shifts that she's made. I wish in this episode that I would have replied by saying to Katy that this is a gift that she's given herself. This is a gift she's given herself. She is doing the work. She is the one showing up for herself. This is all Katy. And she is so beautifully committed to her health, and to her relationship with herself. You'll hear all of that shine through in this episode.

So I hope you enjoy.

To give listeners a context of our relationship: Katy and I went to college together. We went to USD, we're Gamma Phis.

Katy: Always.

Edie: We started working together in a coaching relationship a year ago. Our work together began in January of 2023. And even though I knew Katy in college, for me it has been such an honor, such a joy, and a bright spot in my business and in my life to get to know Katy on a deeper, more personal level, through a coaching capacity.

Katy: I feel the same way about you, Edie. I feel the same way.

Edie: Thank you.

My favorite thing about Katy — one of my favorite things, I should say — is her brain, her mindset, the way she thinks. I highlight this because I want our listeners to know what a gift it is that you are giving us today, Katy, by sharing your perspective, your thoughts, your wisdom, on topics that we both care so deeply about. I just can't wait to dive in.

There's so much that we have to cover, and I'd like to start with an introduction. I think one of my favorite things when I'm working toward a goal is to feel like there's some part of the person who is where I want to be that I can connect with, that I can see myself in — whether it's through her past struggles, or some part of her lifestyle.

So if you could share where you live, and just a little bit about the different hats that you wear, what your day-to-day life looks like.

Katy: I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. Very proud to be from Nevada. I am married. I have two stepchildren — I don't call them that. They are 11 and 13.

I am an attorney for my family business, in-house counsel on the employment side. It's a big job. It's a challenging job. I love it, but it's a lot.

I recently got married, and it wasn't the impetus for me to come and start working with you, but I really was struck by what you just mentioned about seeing people in different places in their life and feeling inspired by that.

When I started seeing your posts — like you said before, we knew each other in college, but what I saw in your original post is what really inspired me to reach out to you. Because I felt that I was at a time — maybe the wedding was an impetus a little, but it wasn't. It was just, I was tired of being tired. And seeing your post, and especially feeling comfortable knowing you, and knowing what an authentic and honest and trustworthy person you are.

The thing that I was most struck by was not just your physical transformation, but the confidence and wisdom that came through your photos, your skin, your hair — and more importantly than anything, that you talked about food freedom and not weight loss.

I have lived an absolutely beautiful life these 40 years, but disordered eating and challenges with body image, body dysmorphia, has really been something — I think that if I were to say a vice or an addiction, I would think that dealing with food and how my body image has been is something that's followed me.

Quite young, I was a champion gymnast. Same with diving — I dove for USD. And I don't blame those activities. I only note that there are activities where you need to maintain a certain fitness. It's just part of what it is. And as this follows you, I learned a lot of absolutely incredible things from those activities, but I was also keenly aware of the size you needed to be, and not wanting to lose that feeling — of not being perfect, or disappointing people.

So I think that was a long-winded way of saying where I am.

Edie: No, I love it. It's such good context. I love hearing too that the part of my marketing that you connected with was the food freedom piece.

Can you tell us a little bit about what your relationship with food, body, and self has been like — taking us back to childhood, and then how it's evolved over the years through the sports that you just highlighted, and moving into adulthood?

Katy: I think for me, from a very young age, excelling at school, at sports, at outside activities — especially sports — I joke sometimes that I was my own stage mom. I feel like I got a lot of validation from my skills in sports and school, and especially with gymnastics and diving. My parents are amazing. They have eight children between them, and it was something that I succeeded at, and I was the focus amongst everybody.

I started gymnastics when I was five and a half. And as you grow — at this time, any gym you went to, there were weigh-ins. I just see it as a moment of being very cognizant of the scale itself, my weight itself, a number dictating if I was on track or not. Very much a fear around, is it going to be okay?

And I understand, I think they do it a little differently now. I don't have any animosity or blame. But it is really the first time I became very aware that not being a certain size was going to limit me from continuing to feel gratified by this thing that I did.

I had a coach — I think I was 11, maybe 12. I couldn't tell you what I weighed. This is 20, 25 years ago. She's like, now that you've made optional, we need to talk about your diet plan. The girls are doing X.

And I had a very visceral reaction. I wanted to quit. Because I think that was the first time I really felt, oh, I'm bad. Like, in order to keep going, I need to materially change something about myself. And that was very internalized.

I think that's another point in my brain, of needing to be — it's not even needing to be a certain size or weight, but feeling like, gosh, people are looking at me. And whether this was true or not, in my brain, how I felt was like — and it's wrong — like, things need to change for me to continue to be perfect.

I get really sad thinking about how much of my childhood, even into my thirties, I spent calling myself fat, or thinking I needed to be something different. I look back at these pictures and I wish I could just tell all those different versions of myself how beautiful you were.

With the level of gymnastics I was doing, you're working out four hours a day, and you have the metabolism. So in stopping, while still being extremely active, there was just a natural change in my body. I went through puberty more. I had boobs, and that became even more of a feeling of, how do I keep this from getting worse — when really there was nothing, there was nothing wrong. But definitely in my brain, I don't think what I saw or felt was rational to how I really looked, or the pressure that I put on myself at a young age to be a certain size.

I really don't think I had too much disordered eating until high school, probably around 11th grade. My mother is a very regimented eater, and we always had very healthy foods in the house. I'm not blaming her in any way at all, but I think that's when I started seeing food as good and bad.

I saw it as a method of — in my brain, I'm like, you're gaining weight, you're getting fat, you're not going to be perfect. Versus, you're just growing, you know, naturally going through puberty. If I look at pictures, in no way on earth was I fat. But I became very obsessed with the number on the scale, crash diets. And then it evolved into binging and purging, and bulimia, for quite some time.

And I think I just rambled. I'm not sure I answered your exact question.

Edie: No, you did. You didn't ramble at all. It's perfect. It's so helpful to understand what your history with food and weight and body — and some of the self-talk that you described — looked like starting at a very young age, in elementary school, and how that's followed you, like you said, through your thirties.

It makes total sense, because our relationship with food and body is just like any other relationship. We start developing these beliefs especially ages zero to 14, consciously or subconsciously, when we're taking in the information that we're observing and hearing from our coaches, our teachers, religious leaders, parents, things that we're seeing on magazine stands. All of these external factors start to influence what we think we have to be, how we have to eat, what number on the scale we should be, in order to be good enough or perfect.

You touched on so many important topics that I think so many women can relate to, in terms of perfectionism, moralizing food as good or bad, trying to feel in control with food. And when we think about food, how did it feel emotionally for you? Can you describe what that's looked like over the years?

Katy: So here's the thing. I love food. I'm not one of those people that's like, I'm not a big eater — I wish I was. I really love the act of eating. I love going to dinner. I love going to lunch. I love trying new restaurants.

But I think a gift you've really given me is the freedom to not have such a fear of food, or the shame. I'm reflecting, thinking about how — yes, there were outside influences too, but how internalized it was.

I think when I was like 15, 16, Atkins was all the rage. My mother put the household kind of on it. So that's something I remember, that concept of no carbs. You can eat this, you can eat all of this, but you can't have that.

What that really started to instill in me was being hypercritical, and scared, and fearful of what choices I was going to make during the day. And limiting. You're 16 — who doesn't want to eat chicken nuggets? And I did. But that feeling of, depending on who I was with, or what I'd already had during the day, of being like, this is bad. If you eat this, I needed to fix it some other way — whether that was extra exercise the next day, really limiting my intake the next day, and then eventually, unfortunately, moving into binging.

It's such an interesting question, because during this time, in high school, it's the early 2000s. I had this trainer once, and he actually was a great guy. I really loved the physical activity, but I feel like the people that I was choosing to assist me — two trainers that I can think of — the diet that he suggested, he's like, this isn't forever, but it'll just get you down to.

I think being young and being impressionable and watching others maybe have some disorder — I very much wanted to please, and two, it's like, well, they're the experts.

I definitely think I got a lot of attention for how I looked. And I think that from an outward appearance I seemed a lot more confident than I ever was. And I started to believe — I think the key word is believe — that if I couldn't keep perfect, or be considered pretty, or one of the prettiest, that there was nothing else really for me to offer about myself. And that just wasn't true.

At the beginning, when you mentioned my brain, I kind of wanted to cry, because I really love my brain too.

Edie: Yes.

Katy: I was so conscious at every point of my size. And this is the era of Cosmo and Self and Seventeen, and everything's like, how to lose 10 pounds in — I just felt like everything was putting out a fire that maybe existed or maybe didn't. Oh my God, you've gained two pounds, you need to.

And there were all of these — whether it's a trainer who's an adult, whether it's all these things being like, oh yeah, totally do that, you should be taking Hydroxycut, or whatever it was. Which was fen-phen, which is basically an amphetamine. They still legally sold it over the counter, and I remember being like 16, 17, taking that.

And I think my trainer at the time was like, you're at 15% body fat. I think about that now, and how much praise I got, when it wasn't real. But it became so much validation from losing weight, from the size I was, from what I wore.

It was so much outside validation, and how I had gotten to that point I didn't realize at the time was so unhealthy. It created habits, and created views about food, about myself, about image, that quite frankly, until I met you, has been probably the biggest challenge of my life.

Edie: Thank you so much for sharing all of that, Katy, because it paints such a clear picture of the pressure and the scrutiny that you were under.

Katy: And I do want to clarify that yes, there was outside pressure, outside scrutiny, but so much of it was internal, from such a young age.

I remember my dad one time — I'd admitted to my family that I was struggling with bulimia and that I needed to get some help. And my dad, in his ever graceful way, was like, I don't care what you look like. I just want you to be healthy. And he meant that.

It was nice to hear, but I was too sick at the time. I was like, but you love me because I can dance and sing and the whole thing. So I had supportive people, but so much of it was just really internalized, and those habits continued to get worse.

Edie: I'm curious to hear how you feel your relationship with food and body and self-image has changed over the past year, with the work that you've done in your health journey. What's different now? Can you tell us how it feels now?

Katy: It feels like you gave me a gift. I'm not going to lie to you — when I heard food freedom, I was like, okay, I'm going to go along with this. But that's really what you've given me. I have chills thinking about it, because in the past year, especially in a food context — and we're getting there in a body image context as well — I don't think of food as good or bad anymore. And I have chills all over my body, because that is food freedom.

I don't know what I was expecting. What struck me was trusting you and knowing you. And I hate saying it was easy, because I put in the work. But to have so much of what was ingrained in myself about macros or calories or carbs, and to have you just start and dial it down to, what are your primary foods, joy eating — that is the first thing that I really remember. To stop being scared, if I eat something, good, bad.

I'm not explaining this very well, because I'm going to get emotional. But food freedom is the perfect word. I no longer feel like I can or cannot have things. And with letting that go, so many cravings or bad behaviors have just naturally abated. And the lack of judgment around your coaching program — you gave me the ability to just be good enough. It's great if you go above and beyond, but —

And the tips and tricks too. They're not even tips or tricks. Starting with protein. I pretty much make eggs for myself every day, and I did that previously, but knowing that once I do that, that's going to keep me full for a minute. And then just the simple things of trying to fit in a healthy fat, a protein, some veg, some good carbs — that broke my brain, because that is such a wide spectrum of what I can eat. And it really broke this cord of, we've already eaten this, you can't eat that.

I'm very open about this — I kind of fall back sometimes and occasionally binge, and we work through that. Very much emotional. But I think what you've really taught me is how tied the cognitive behavioral aspect of disordered eating and food is.

I'm trying not to get emotional, because it wasn't magic, I worked at it. But I literally feel like I woke up like eight months later and suddenly had control over what I put in my body, and never denying myself. Being much more, like you like to say, a scientist of — okay, maybe I had more processed foods today than I would have liked. Instead of spiraling and continuing to, well, you're the worst person in the world and you've ruined everything, let's shame spiral and just binge, binge, binge. I can look at it and be like, okay, we ate out, we had some things. Tomorrow let's just try to work in some fresh foods and vegetables, fresh fruits, let's cook at home. And really seeing each day as one day at a time.

I just can't stress to you enough — and I hope anyone listening relates to this — how strongly I truly saw food as good or bad, and that I was good or bad for choosing what I chose to eat, and putting a morality around food. But quite frankly, that was a shame spiral that just led to yo-yoing for 20 years, basically.

And I think another thing that I really love is — I've done it all. I've done Weight Watchers. I've done Lose It. I've done God knows all of it. But I don't really look at calories anymore. And I cannot stress to you enough how much of my life was looking at whatever it was and being like, 50 calories, 300 calories, and not even thinking about what it was.

Whatever I decided, when I was really having disordered eating — oh my God, you went over 675 calories — right to, well, you've just now binged and eaten even 4,000 calories, and you are terrible.

How I see food now — I eat food now that I want to be fresh. One of your opening things that we went through is looking at, when you're grocery shopping, the things with the fewest ingredients. That was so easy for me and so wonderful, to really see — not to be like, you can't have this or have this, but it makes complete sense. Why would we not go back and eat more whole foods, more fresh things? And how much better I felt about that.

And what an easy mind-shift perspective. It made it click: this isn't about what you can or can't have, or that if you eat this you're a bad person, or a fat person, or a shameful person, whatever it is. It's, these are the choices that are going to make you feel better — mind, body, spirit.

Edie: Yes. I would be so curious to hear how your goals have shifted in our work together.

Katy: We went over, a couple of weeks ago, my goals from a year ago. And some of them were so cool because I did it. I think it was like, be better hydrated — which seems like a small goal, but it's really natural now.

But what's changed is, one of the goals was to lose 25 pounds, or get to a size X or Y. And I don't feel bad that that was a goal. But starting with you then was still so much in the focus of being a certain weight, being a certain size.

And don't get me wrong, I've lost a good amount of weight, I've lost inches, you've helped me do all of that. That is so much less important to me in my goal setting now, because there are lots of sizes. Just because I'm not a size six or eight doesn't mean I'm not healthy, doesn't mean I'm not strong, doesn't mean I'm not working toward being even healthier.

The shift I see in my goals — I hate to say that they are less, what is the word? I want to say vapid, but that's a very strong word for what I'm trying to say. When I first started, being like, I have to lose 20 pounds — I said it better in my goals, but in my brain I was like, if you don't do that, you've lost.

And I think once we got to the six months, I can't even remember, but it didn't matter to me anymore that I hadn't gotten there. I really was focused on how far I'd come, and excited to keep going. And not from a challenge of — yes, the weight loss was great, yes, it was fantastic to feel beautiful in my wedding dress and to have people comment. And yes, do we talk about that I want to continue to release? But that focus on purely physical metrics.

Now that you're asking me the question — my whole adult life is like, okay, I'm this weight, what do I need to do to be 15 pounds less? As if that was some sort of metric of who I was as a human being, or of health.

You've seen my blood work. I can't tell you enough that a year later — and you know this, the scale has been something very scary for me — now I'm really proud of myself that I'm tracking, and I love doing the measurements. But it's taken the — I'm still a good person at the weight I am now.

Suddenly losing 40 pounds — maybe I'll get there through us continuing to work together. Maybe I won't. That's not going to magically make me a better person, a happier person, unless I do it with the true intention of health and growth. Very different.

And I think people, especially my family and my friends — it's very nice when I get compliments, but more just how they see it. I turned 40 in September, and I've loved every year I've gotten older. My goals now, and continuing to keep working with you — the weight loss is great, losing inches is fantastic. But seeing how my brain and my mindset have shifted, to be kinder, to not think of it in terms of all or nothing — either you're perfect and you've done everything perfectly today and you've eaten chicken breasts and vegetables and you walked five miles and took an aerobics class.

You've really helped me shift my goals to smaller. And by making them smaller, I'm actually attaining them. And that has been such a groundbreaking change.

Edie: Yes. I have so many thoughts on that. It makes total sense why — for anyone who has a history of yo-yo dieting, or a history with eating disorders, or who has your background of training and working with coaches where you are doing these extreme long workouts — the idea that lowering the bar and starting with something like a 15-minute workout could be enough. The brain usually does have a lot to say about that.

And your focus on what I call high-vibe habits, these small doable habits — like you gave the example with the water, or the way you grocery shop now, or the mindset shifts that you've described. Those are all non-scale victories. And the physical release that you've experienced, as you've been in a downward trajectory for a year, with travel, with a wedding, with business trips, with a honeymoon, with your kids' activities, with a demanding career — it's all evidence of an identity shift.

Katy: I think something that I just thought of, that I really want to mention — the gift you gave me is really an identity shift.

If a year ago you would have said, Katy, you need to lose 10 pounds — what day is it, it's Friday — you need to lose 10 to 12 pounds by next Friday, maybe even 15. Oh, I know how to do it. It's starvation. It's use of some sort of appetite suppressant. It's obsessive working out. I'll get there, but for what? I'm starving. I might fit in whatever dress I needed to fit in to do that.

And there were so many periods through my teens up until my thirties where, okay, I can figure this out, I know how to do this — but it was so unhealthy, and got me into this cycle of more yo-yoing. I feel like my body didn't know what to do anymore, because I was so one way or the other. And none of it was healthy.

And I feel like the gift you gave me, just like you spoke about, is a new identity of start small. And what comes from those smaller goals — those things that in my brain, if I wasn't doing X, if I wasn't working out for an hour, that didn't count. Which really, what ended up happening is, I don't want to work out that hard for an hour, and then I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't moving at all.

Something that's really changed my brain is how you speak about joy-filled movement, and movement in general, rather than working out. That has been just like a glass ceiling shattering.

I have quite a busy work schedule, and finding time for me I need to make more of a priority. But if I don't get up and go for a walk in the morning, or work out with my friend who's amazing, who really helps me on this journey — rather than feeling defeated or shamed, the things that you've taught me. Oh my gosh, go walk around. Let's see if we can hit our steps. Let's go walk up some stairs. Let's park further away. That is still movement.

And I laugh, because I do travel quite a bit, both personally and professionally, and I used to dread the walk to the terminal. Now I'm like, airport day. I don't have a chance to work out, but I know I'm going to hit all my steps. That is just a mind-shift perspective of, great, two birds with one stone.

I think what has also changed in terms of goals is — in the first goals I set with you, I can't remember the exact language, but it was working out four to five times a week. Which is great, but I feel like I struggle with this more than any food aspect, which is crazy to me, especially with my background. Not forgetting, but — because I already understand how much movement makes me feel happier, better, energized — I still struggle a little bit with, okay, if you haven't done X, Y, and this, it's not enough of a workout, you haven't burned enough calories. And then I don't end up doing anything.

Versus, we have an accountability thing that we do where it's like two songs. And generally, once we do that, because I love to dance, I love the endorphins and the feeling and the dopamine that I get from that. I need to remember that more, because it is something I still do struggle with, I think just from a past of having trainers. That it can be more simplified, and I can still do it.

Definitely that goal of exercise versus moving daily, whatever that looks like, but having it be consistent — not just because it's good for your body, it's good for your soul and your mind. I think in our next year together that's something I know is kind of a weaker link of my goals, but that I'm very excited about.

Edie: The entire tone of this part of our conversation is one that really excites me, especially with the background that you opened with, Katy. Because it's so clear to me, and to anyone who's listening, how your headspace and your mindset with food, body, weight, movement, self has done a complete 180. When we think about where your head was when you would grocery shop, and looking at calories and fear and panic — and then what you've just described with your why for wanting to do these things.

To feel better mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally. It's not a why connected to, because I need to hit this number on a scale. And to be clear to anyone who's listening, there's nothing wrong with wanting weight loss. I specialize in food freedom and weight loss.

Katy: And I'd like to clarify that I'm thrilled by the weight loss that I've been able to achieve. There's no shame in any of that, or in wanting more. I'm just trying to express how much that has been an additional benefit rather than my main focus.

Edie: Yes, and that's exactly where I was going with it. Katy, we're on the exact same page. There's nothing, quote, wrong about wanting to release weight. That's what prompted my health journey.

Katy: Or wanting to be a certain size.

Edie: Yes. But it's the by-product of the actions that you're taking, of where your focus is now. It's a by-product of your high-vibe habits. And those are what we're prioritizing — your non-scale victories, your celebrations, and connecting with something that's much more deep and meaningful than a physical release.

Katy: Something I wanted to slip in that you have really helped me change this year is how I talk about myself, both externally and internally.

My daughter is 13 — and both my daughter and my son, because I do need to realize that it's just not women, men deal with this too, and especially younger. But how I used to talk about myself openly. I have these two little humans, and I'm like, oh, I'm so fat. And to see them be kind of quizzical, like, what's fat? Or me being like, oh, this has this many calories. And then my son, I saw him be like, well, this has X amount of calories. And I was like, you do not need to worry about calories. We're worried about what you're putting in your body, you're growing.

And also just seeing my daughter — she's so beautiful, and she's in middle school, she's on her way to high school. And it hit me like a ton of bricks. They don't miss a beat. She watches my mood, she watches. My favorite thing she says — I say, I love what you're wearing, or you're amazing, and she says, I know.

Edie: I love that confidence.

Katy: And I feel like I was catching myself saying things that I would never want her to say about herself.

But I feel like what you've given me is a perspective change of all the things I really do like, and the things that I have challenges with — I look at them last, when I used to not only look at them first, but couldn't look away, to the point of obsession, to the point of anxiety-induced panic.

Edie: How have you been able to quiet your inner critic, Katy? Hearing that you're cultivating a more peaceful internal environment is such a huge non-scale victory to celebrate. To like the body you live in, the headspace you live in, is part of food freedom. How have you done that?

Katy: Definitely with your help. I mean, I know I've done the work.

Also being with the man that I am with. Trent genuinely loves me as I am. And he met me maybe 10 pounds heavier than I am now. I hate saying that it was a man that has given it, but I think it was the start of, I can be my most vulnerable with him. And I started to see myself through his eyes.

I feel like it's taken that pressure away from those outside, external things — but then also to acknowledge, he can't fill me up. The only person that can fill me up is me.

I also think, Edie, hearing how you talk about yourself, and affirmations. They may seem silly, but those have really helped. So much of just one thing you like about yourself. One thing.

It's this mind-shift perspective. We've done some work, and I've done some inner child work with my meditation coach, of how much of my life I've spent being really cruel to myself. And what a wasted space. I can't go back, and I don't regret it. I just feel like — I am only 40 years old. I don't think of it as, oh, I'm 40. I think, I'm only 40 years old. I feel so excited to grow, and I feel like each year that passes I like myself even more.

So when I do catch myself being negative, I'm like, don't be mean to my friend.

Edie: Yes. Thinking of yourself as a best friend.

Katy: And I say that if I hear others — my friends — I'm like, don't talk about my friend like that.

It's been a year now, but definitely within the last three months, and I think I've Voxered you about this, I don't automatically see the negative anymore. I used to be — and we've talked through this — at large events, terrified of taking the picture. Almost panicked, being like, can I see it? Can I see it, to make sure?

God bless my friends. I would panic, and they're like, I don't see what you're seeing, but okay, we won't post it, or we'll take it again. And just how much I would jump to God knows what I thought was terrible about myself.

I gave the example of — I was lucky enough to get back from my honeymoon, and we went to the trip of my dreams, and there's a picture of me on a boat, which is my favorite thing. And I'm in a red swimsuit and I look so happy.

I looked at this picture, and it was the first time — maybe not the first time, but the first time I was able to actually actualize it and be like, I look really happy, and I love how my arms look, and my smile looks beautiful. And yeah, my tummy's there. But that is so different from physically sometimes not being able to look at myself, or if somebody posted something, feeling just this level of shame. I won't even get into the fact that nobody's thinking about me that much. But that's how it felt.

And I feel like to see myself happy and not perfect means so much to me. I want to live as long and happy a life as I can. So for me it's exciting to be like, okay, let's get the movement in. You've really helped me gamify some stuff, which I love, because I'm a competitive person, but also if I can kind of trick my brain like that.

That really sticks in my brain, of seeing that picture on my honeymoon and just thinking about how happy I looked. And not deleting a memory because I was hyper-focused on one part of my body — which is what I used to do.

Edie: Yes. You can hear how this journey has been one of rebuilding trust with yourself. And it is, like I just recently wrote about as I updated my website, achieving optimal health through radical self-love. You're embodying that.

Katy: And I feel like that is such a gift that you've really given me, Edie. I wouldn't say that I had a ton of self-hatred, but I just didn't realize how much I was not practicing self-love. You really changed my brain.

I talk a lot about this, because people always ask. They're like, you look great, you seem so happy, you seem very calm, you seem different. And I say, I work with Edie. And the first thing people want to go to is, well, what's your diet plan? And I'm like, it's not about that.

It was just this glass breaking, glass breaking, glass breaking of joy eating, fuel eating. But the joy eating — I feel like you gave me a roadmap that was not only achievable, it made so much sense, it was attainable. And I still struggle with this, but that sometimes B-minus work is good enough.

Edie: Yes.

Katy: Okay, I didn't get to meal prep for the whole week, but I made a healthy meal one day. And for my lunches, I got food — it's called Foodie Fit here, but I'm sure there are others. So at least I know that I'm healing in a way that I feel comfortable and confident about.

And I feel like the feeling of being enough, and not being perfect, has changed everything.

Edie: Yes. You're creating sustainable results because you're not expecting perfectionism. We're not holding ourselves to these standards that aren't doable for the long haul.

I'll say to anyone who's listening — Katy's mentioned fuel eating and joy eating a couple of times. My one-on-one coaching program includes four pillars: nutrition, movement, mindset, and harmony. Harmony includes things like your hormone health, sleep, stress, boundaries.

Within the nutrition pillar, we break that down into two components. There's the nutritional side of food — things like blood sugar balance, portions, the hunger scale, clean eating, meal planning and prep. And then there's the other side of food, which is the emotional side of food.

And when Katy's talking about joy eating — there are four different types of eating, which could be its own podcast episode in and of itself. Fuel eating, joy eating, storm eating or emotional eating, and fog eating or mindless eating. So I love hearing that those different concepts have been helpful in healing your relationship with food.

Katy: I think the mindset work has been the biggest gift and change of all. And for me, not realizing how much the cognitive behavioral aspect was really the link that has helped me make meaningful change.

Something that was super helpful, especially in the beginning when I would kind of panic — you would tell me to think like a scientist. There's no judgment, we're gathering data. And that in itself, from a mindset perspective, was releasing judgment. And I love data, I love learning. So it allowed me to step outside of myself and all of that past internal insecurity and shame that I had wrapped around it, and be like, we're just learning. You're learning about yourself.

And don't get me wrong, I don't want anything to come off like I am a perfect person now who is always positive and doesn't have insecurities. I just cannot stress enough how different my life is since working with you, in a way that I've never been able to achieve before, and how truly simple and attainable and exciting it's been.

Edie: I'm so happy to hear that, Katy. I just love that, and appreciate your feedback so, so much.

I'm curious to hear from you what the biggest takeaway is that you hope listeners learn from our conversation today.

Katy: Please stop dieting. And I don't mean that from a place of shame, because I've dieted my whole life.

There's such an easier and better way that can help you achieve the goals, if you're physically wanting to be a different weight, a different size. But whatever the diet is — I mean, unless you have a medical restriction or something like that — you can eat this but not that, and I don't think that is sustainable. I feel like it sets up a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe some people can, but in general, if you're cutting something completely out, you're going to want it.

For me, with dieting, it was just so much of good, bad. And I failed. Even if I succeeded momentarily, it wasn't sustainable.

So when I say please stop dieting, I'm not saying go nuts and only eat pizza and fast food for the rest of your life. I'm saying it doesn't have to be so hard, and you don't have to live under yet another level of what you're already dealing with in your life of, I messed up today.

And it's so funny that once I really — thinking about diet culture, and how much I was involved in that, and then starting to work with you — I don't feel like I ever have to diet, because I feel like I'm in control. And that has never been the case in my life, ever.

And sometimes do I get out of control? Sure. But the amount of control that I have now is the biggest gift I could have ever asked for, because I've never had that, especially in a diet-focused culture. I don't have these intense cravings anymore. If I want to have a little bit of pasta, I do. I eat my salad before, to help with my gut.

And I think we live in such a constant — there are 24-hour news cycles, and everything is fast, fast, fast, fast. Previously, if I wasn't getting immediate results, I would jump to very disordered things to get those immediate results, which were always momentary. The weight came back on, maybe more.

I am enjoying — and I can't even believe that I can say this and it's truthful — it took me a minute to put some extra weight on, and it's going to take me some time to continue to grow and be the healthiest person I can. And that's okay. And that is so freeing.

Edie: Yes.

Katy: That there's not this, if you don't lose 30 pounds by July — in my brain, like, what's going to happen, Katy, if that isn't? It's really just broken that link for me. Yes, I love when I have a great release. I love that I'm on a downward trajectory. But it's taken the pressure off of now, now, now — and if it doesn't happen now, I'm a bad person.

Edie: The journey you've described is one where it sounds like you've let go of the timeline, and you actually are making micro adjustments that are helping you feel better.

Katy: That is it. Much more succinct and a better way of saying it. I have let go of the timeline, and it's working. And I think I have a faith that I never had before — by letting go of the timeline — that I'm going to achieve my goals. I don't know what that weight will be. I don't know what those inches will be. But I just want to keep growing and getting healthier and better. And that's exciting.

Edie: It's so exciting, Katy. That right there is a mindset that you cannot achieve from a diet. You have done the inner work to create these thoughts and feelings and emotions and excitement for what you accomplished this past year and where you're going next. And that's health, peace, and happiness. And I'm just so freaking happy for you.

Katy: I lost my best friend about two years ago. And I think about — I mean, he's always on my brain, I see him in everything — I think of how he lived his life. It was so sudden. I use that as inspiration of, life is so precious, every day is so precious. That health, happiness, and peace, that's what's important. And worrying if I went over a certain amount of calories — at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

It's about health. It's about happiness. And am I making choices that make me feel good, both from what I put into my body and from my movement? Am I sitting in the sun, just getting sunshine with people I love? That's what matters.

Edie: Yes, 100%. I have two final questions for you, if you're okay on time.

I would love to hear what you would say to someone who is considering reaching out for help or support.

Katy: That's a good question. Please do it.

Even for me, when I started watching your posts — something that was really heavily focused on my mind was, because I'd only ever done diet things, it was like, can I commit to this? I was scared that I was going to fail, without even knowing what working with you looked like. Because I'd failed before.

And I hope this doesn't — I think because I've known you before, Edie, you're just such a beautiful person, mind, body, spirit, inside and out. And I don't think people who don't know you may have this perception. I was like, well, Edie, she's the president of the sorority, and she's a marathon runner, and she's so nice, and she commits to everything, and I always thought you looked beautiful and perfect. I was more like, I thought it was going to be a diet.

So I really encourage — even if you don't end up signing up, you are so warm and welcoming and open to questions and talking things through. I think a lot — I don't want to speak for anyone, but for myself it was like, is this just something you're going to do again to fail?

And letting myself be vulnerable and be open to what your program was — yes, it's a program, but at the end of the day it's changed my whole life. It really has.

And something else I would say is that it's never too late to start. I reached out to you when I was 39 years old. And whatever your goal is, wherever you are, you are good enough. You can be a better version of yourself — internally, mentally, physically healthy. But please don't miss an opportunity to get the tools to love yourself. Weight release is all well and good, but more so, to change the wiring of your brain when it comes to food, movement, what is joy, what is peace.

Just ask questions. You are so welcoming, Edie, and you made me feel so safe. But what I would really say to someone who watches your posts is, whatever your goal is, whatever your question, whatever your fear is — please take the opportunity, because it's an opportunity of a lifetime.

Edie: Thank you so very much, Katy. That just means so much to me, from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate your words.

The thing that stands out to me as I was listening to you is how you were describing, ask questions. If I could give anyone a tip to find food freedom and peace with food, and to change the relationship that you have with yourself, to improve it — it's to do what you've done so beautifully, consistently, for an entire year.

I've heard you talk about how much you've liked the concept of becoming a scientist. I always say we're wanting to become this gentle, nonjudgmental observer. It's like we're this third party — I always have my hands up when I describe this — like we're hovering above ourselves and just watching what's going on, and asking why, getting curious. And that's what you've done. You're embodying the work: asking the questions, being curious, doing your best to not be judgmental, and sharing what's come up for you, being so vulnerable.

Katy: Both within our sessions, and that I can Voxer you almost stream of consciousness and get those feelings out. I didn't realize how much I was keeping inside, and that by getting it out, it really helped me on the journey.

I think the last thing I would say is that it's just so different and wonderful working with you. If people have a hesitancy of, well, if I make a goal and I don't lose 10 pounds, I don't lose 20 pounds, I'm going to be disappointed, or I'm not following the game plan — once you really learn about your program and food freedom, it's so much more. You are not judging anyone. You are here to help and show people a better way, because you've lived it.

That's what really drew me in when I first started seeing your posts and your stories. I was like, wow, somebody who I've always thought is perfect — not only is she being vulnerable, she's sharing how she changed her life.

And I loved, Edie — I think sometimes today in culture, it's like people are like, lose 50 pounds, maybe medically or whatever. It's all about the focus on someone's lost X. But do they keep it off? Were they able to sustain it, and sustain it in a way that is healthy?

I think what really drew me to you as well is how open and honest you were. You were like, I've kept it off. And as I learned more about it, it became less about the weight and about the control that you learned, and the confidence, and just the self-love that has continued to help you. The physical transformation is great. But it's the mental and spiritual and peace. I can't say thank you enough.

Edie: Oh, Katy. I wish listeners could see the huge grin on my face, because that's you. That is you. It's just been such a joy to witness your transformation. Everything you described is exactly what I would hope for anyone who is dealing with any sort of weight, body image, or negative self-talk — that we could shift the focus to prioritizing everything that you just described. Because that's what makes it lasting.

So thank you for your thoughts. And my final question would be, if you had to pick one word to describe how you're feeling about the year ahead, what would it be? Or one word that represents where you're going?

Katy: Forward.

Edie: Mm hmm.

Katy: I'm saying forward — of course, you know me, I'm not exactly a woman of few words. But when I say I'm going forward, I'm excited to keep growing and to keep improving on the tools that I already have. Instead of focusing on, oh, I didn't move today, being like, I can't wait to gamify this, and to walk, and to swim, and to keep growing as a human being. With my food choices, with my movement choices, with being around people that bring me peace and love. But also that the future is bright. And I'm excited to keep challenging myself, and to let go more and more of the perfectionism that I think has crippled a huge part of my life. And being able to see that and keep going.

Edie: Yes. So much of what we've talked through today has highlighted the growth and the work that you've done to unhook not only from diet culture, but also from perfectionistic tendencies. And that's such massive progress and such a huge win to celebrate. I'm so excited to continue in our work together over the next year.

Katy: I'm excited to.

Edie: If you enjoyed this episode, please do me a favor and rate it. Your reviews will help me help more people. And if you'd like my support in your health journey, you can head to my website at ediefeffer.com, where you can check out the different ways that we can work together. You can also come hang out with me on Instagram — I'm @ediefeffer. Thanks for listening.